CSE makes and sells this kind of "step-down" ferrule, from tubing, as Dickerson did. I brought my recently acquired 861711D to Luray, Virginia to show/share with Chris at his rod shop open house some years ago. Bill Wara. Varnish of 0.004 subtracted. (Robin Haywood). So now where do you add or subtract material and what effect will it have on the rod. 1 2 3 The best reason that I can give you as to why Dickersons are popular tapers (Along with another Michigan maker Paul Young) is that they are nice casting rods and fit our fishing very well. 0.320 and .360@45. I don't find the 7'6" length to be too short. 0.111 a 3 1/2 wt - were that possible. Get information on services and amenities, security protocols, health and safety measures, and more. When fishing bamboo for trout I believe the "best" length is an 8 foot rod. This rod belonged to rodbuilder Tim Bedford. (Dennis Higham). 25 0.142 158834 And, it's true, if you were really screwed and couldn't get a Dickerson, and were absolutely forced to rough it with a Payne, I do think you could manage to get by without shedding too many tears. 8 wt 0.0830 If you know something different about Dickerson's typical varnsh coat, make the appropriate adjustment. Not too many folks consider these mediocre. Spring Creek Four, Bob Summers has built and repaired quality bamboo fly rods since 1956. Also, your shorthand doesn't describe where these changes take place, which is as equally as important as the changes themselves. Just like the makers of Ping golf clubs, who ban their retailers from selling on the internet, I do not see how it is possible to make a rod for someone without the presence of that person for a considerable time on a casting court. These get assimilated quite directly into stress curve approach. You can do all the compensation you like for varnish thickness, ring weight and ferrules but you will still not produce anything like as good as a properly calculated compound taper rod. Bill said that the book he has written on the subject is going to the printers and should be out soon.. (No financial interest.) I have a chart of the dimensions at home, if you need a copy email me off list. June - October You can design a flyrod, racing bicycle, airplane or motorcar to do one thing superbly with ease. Latterly, they considered that a fiberglass butt section would solve all their troubles. Browse our collection of vintage fly boxes and wallets. 15 0.115 163502 Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods. It was considerably more effortless to use than my colleagues 8'6'' to 9' supposedly #4 carbons. As this was my favorite rod, much foul language followed. Springcreek, the 8013 you have listed. by thramerrods 06/17/16 04:28, Post 0.088 I think you are being a tad myopic, if you can't see that .016, .014, and .015 AVERAGE OUT to equal .014". 35 0.1695 Made 4 or 5 of the lighter. Dennis looked over his rod and it, too, has two nodes right next to each other. It made a fine rod, but you have to smooth out the taper leading into and out of the 45 and 50" stations as the rod was designed for a step down ferrule. by Aransas.clarks 05/09/09 02:49, Post I just wanted to make the point that there's a difference between a rod with a straight taper and one with a straight, flat stress curve. All rights reserved. Rod makers history, value guide and general discussion, Link to Orvis Database by Greg Reynolds, Link to EC Powell's Mechanics of fly casting. 65 0.248 134403 I've built this one which was posted to the rodmaker's listserv years ago. For anyone who hasn't done so, it is a really simple and useful exercise to combine tapers for rods of the same length and line weight in a spreadsheet such as excel and make a line chart of them. I would argue that the variances are due to machine error, rather than deliberate (consider that you are tapering the strips by running them thru a glorified router, excuse me milling machine, using a worn wooden pattern board running over metal rollers, to determine the taper. The Paul Young Perfectionist. (Gary Nicholson), I think most rodmakers wouldn't build a rod to sell that they didn't like, but would make one for a customer that they wouldn't use themselves, I know I have. Inevitably, if part of the strain is caused by rings ferrules and varnish, as it must be, then its resultant effect will detract from the weight of line that rod will cast. 25 .160 .308 It's why I'm fussy about ring weight on the tips of rods below #6. Because of subjective issues like feel and personal prejudices, not to mention fashion, we "adjust" this a bit in fishing rods. (Larry Swearingen), Sorry about the double question, original question appeared lost in cyberspace. The guy turns out to be a top casting instructor. All that stops me is time, I get about six weeks a year unencumbered by business or meetings and I'm booked up to 2010! (Mark Wendt), I checked the several places that I usually look for tapers and they all had the swell starting at 80". (Frank Stetzer, Hexrod, Taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive). I add a few thousandths to the last 3 inches to get a better fit. (Robin Haywood). They would be; The Straight line taper is the most basic and then the six major deviations of the SLT. Dickersons original taper was as Mark stated and a true 5 wt. I have fished some pretty big water with this rod and it has served me very well. Solid construction of suitable solidity involved unattractive weight penalties. Brewer Rods These rods use tried and true taper designs as a starting point. (Greg Reeves), TipsHome - What'sNew - Tips - Articles - Tutorials - Contraptions - Contributors - Search Site - ContactUs - TaperArchives 45 .216 .375 6-strip Tonkin bamboo (Tom Smithwick), See what Steve says, lots of people (Americans ? There are many ways to skin this cat. I have made several and all have been well received. (Greg Reeves), This version appears to me to take a step into account. Dickerson 8014 8' 5wt. And, after you "get used to it" you will fall in love with this rod taper. All 5wt with identical terminal tip and butt dimensions. The trouble is, that's all it does! .232@10 Some use this to define the average rod speed. by avyoung 06/17/16 00:43, Post There are actually at least four different versions of the 7613; two by Dickerson a 1952 and a 1970 model, one by Golden Witch and one by Todd Talsma. If you want to make one as a sort of standard then try a rate of taper of 13.5 thousandths per station, it gives a Gould rating of 270 which is a useful point about which to have a conversation with yourself about what you think is medium fast and what you think is fast. How drastically do you think it would change the action if I pushed the swell out in front of the handle? I thought it was in there, but I didn't have the link, and the CD I got from Lowell is at home. 0.196 The taper I used was from "The Lovely Reed." In reading my post the tone seems a little harsh. I have fit the ferrules but not glued them up yet. The swell should start in front of the cork, at least 3" to 5". This taper, starting with a .068 tip dimension, makes a great middle distance 8' WF6 or 7-1/2' 5wt. (Lee Koch), I primarily use RodDNA for my taper selection. These are Bob's dimensions. 0.350 If you want to adjust for a different varnish assumption, or if you want to interpolate differently, then our actual measurements are there for you (or anyone, of course) to do so. Rod Selection - Dickerson Tapers, < Home < Tips Area < Rod Selection < Dickerson Tapers, Can someone help me find the taper for the Dickerson 7613. Short cased and portable. by jim royston 05/26/17 08:58, Return to Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods., Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. They are very nice 5 weights ( IMHO it is THE 8 5 wt). To this Robin brings up the complications created by the weight and placement of ferrules etc. 9 wt 0.0890. All of which indicates to me that there is not one 'correct' straight line taper. Dickerson 801611-D - 8ft 3pc 7wt Posted by Jeremy Gray, Aug 30, 2000. All of these factors when considered together give a better picture of the rod than any one does in isolation. (Tim Pembroke), I wasn't aware of that but now that I've been told it does make perfect sense. There are no great tapers and nobody invented anything. All Rights Reserved. (Robin Haywood), This would be very easy, but would impact on other desirable qualities. .248@15 For example, the 8013 taper I use is .202 at the ferrule end of the tip, and .212 at the ferrule end of the butt. For any thing else but roll casting or keeping a very finite weight of DT in the air, it's useless. (Jimmy Chang), I have made rods using both tapers. (Will Price), Is not 7'6'' a bit short for a five weight? I will be bringing it to Korea next trip to go for trout here in the eastern mountains. It's a 7 wt too but being a little shorter is easier on the arm and shoulder due to the shorter lever arm length. Casting range allows for some delicacy up close and personal, to the times that you want to reach out and touch someone a bit further away. The last page shows our interpolated numbers, on 5 inch stations, with varnish already subtracted, using both the Howell method (measure stations from the butt up) or the "classic" method (measure stations from the tip down.) (four piece) carbon fiber fly rod blank $85.00 13' 7/8wt. by canerodscom 05/09/09 02:32, Post by mosquito 05/08/09 09:33, Post Dickerson 8615 - 8.5ft 2pc 7wt Posted by Gary Lohkamp,15 Jan 1997. I fish mostly Michigan streams where you are wading the stream casting to the edges, and casting to rising fish wherever you are lucky enough to find them. All measurements were taken over varnish. maybe someone else has one! Its just simply to do with maximum stiffness (IE minimum deflection) for a given material weight. 0.102 John Pickard only way to go. Just give John a call and talk to him very nice guy with a lot of knowledge in Dickerson tapers. I like 8013's. (Harry Boyd). If you look at the individual changes every five inches, no they are not always .014, but the mean and mode are .014". Click here to directly compare the action of the 5 weight tapers marked with an asterisk ( * ) below. 35 0.162 166451 As for roll casting, the only person I know who documented his thoughts was Wayne Cattanach.. by Morten 05/26/17 03:35, Post If I were to make it I would use .040 bring the 80" value to .328, this is enough to stop all the rod action. They will not be using straight tapers, I'm afraid. The 7613 Golden Witch version, a 6 wt, has a somewhat softer tip than the 8013 getting stronger toward the lower tip. 0.206 If you are looking for a Dickerson rod or have one that you would like to sell please contact us. Acclaimed as one of the finest rod tapers ever conceived. It will be one of the rods in what I am calling my Basic Reference Taper set. Standard Tapers Two-piece with two tips, bag and aluminum tube Price : $1099 Custom Tapers Two-piece with two tips, bag and aluminum tube Price : $1199 - $1399 You can build this rod and have a neutral action rod (my term). by cwood 05/08/09 02:51, Post Step Down debate again. But I imagine that high output builders didn't have every rod turn out the same for whatever reason. My first few 8013's have 13/64 ferrules and one of them broke off INSIDE of the ferrule. 0.256 The following taper was taken from a varnished 8013. But nobody has a right to ask me to share it. The action, for those who are more familiar fishing graphite rods, is quite easy to get used to. (Chris Obuchowski). 5 0.0825 Kind of sounds like a pro Pickard crowd here. However if we can define specific regions (tip, middle, butt) and understand the effect of removing or adding material in these areas. 4070 Main Street, I always encourage customers to try before they buy. Pickard makes nice rods for sure. (Gary Nicholson). (Steve Weiss), That opens up another question. This will be three tips (light, heavy and SLT), three butts (light, heavy, SLT), a parabolic and a hinge. 0.102 Inquiring solvent-afflicted minds want to know. 0 0.068 This is a set of 13-14/64 step down ferrules. You simply have to then adjust the rate of change of the taper - the rise. It was normal at the time to fit ferrules to the tip and undercut the butt to fit. I believe he told me he placed his roll casting hinge 10"-15" above the handle, depending on rod length. It didn't make since to me but went ahead and planed the butt section the way it was listed. More info. 3 wt 0.0638 (Robin Haywood). I would be very interested in hearing what you have to say about the differences between the two tapers. As we all know, rods can often cast line weights one up and down from their designated ones. The point here being, if we can define areas along the straight line or linier taper. Dave Norling, Rush River Rods, makes a stepdown 13/12 ferrule, the only size stepdown that he offers , that works very well for this taper. Hardy Fly Fishing Rod Trout Fishing Rods & Poles 8 Guides, Hardy Fly Reel Trout Fishing Reels, Hardy Trout Fishing Rods & Poles, My original Dickerson is an 861711D dated 1936. I have a tough time roll casting over about 65' with any rod, no matter how long or limber. Know what to expect when you visit LAN, so you can feel prepared for your upcoming trip! (Greg Reeves), Something ain't quite right there. . (Bob Norwood), I was wondering if anyone has tried out the Dickerson 8615 7wt, the Garrison 221 7 wt, or the Payne Canadian Canoe 7 wt? The Lovely Reed by Jack Howell has numbers for the 1949 and 1951 versions. This rod belonged to rodbuilder Tim Bedford. by JohnI 05/09/09 04:06, Post As good a seven and a half foot 3-piece rod taper as any ever designed. 0.369 (Al Baldauski). All sections are full length and straight. by oldfishbrain 06/19/16 10:39, Post This board is for discussing the repair and restoration of bamboo fly rods, makers discussion and construction techniques relating to same. The line was a Scientific Angler's WF7 in their XXD (distance) format. You don't find a need for a 7'6" 5wt on your streams. 0.266 I have looked on the Rodmakers site under tapers and it is not listed. Stress curves are an integral part of this process and have to be evaluated. Measured over varnish. I measured the rod after seeing David Ray's posting of an 861711 in his taper library that is accessed from Hexrod. As most of you already know Paul Young was notorious for having quite a few different tapers for the same model over the course of his career. My question is, as I plan for my next rod, are these the same rod or is there a difference? 0.214 Casting 20 feet of 5wt line the stress curve is flat. 0.369 I am still trying to fully define the effect, positive and negative each of these regions have on rod action. In other words as the load increased, more of the rod would flex in a liner fashion. (Bob Norwood), That is kind of what I was thinking but if the rod is 7'6", that is 90". He was known for using only one or two strips from a culm, a time-consuming and expensive way to build rods. If it's starting at the cork, somebody got their dimensions messed up. Nowadays, some guys machine ferrules out of bar stock, and they have a reasonable way to make the openings different sizes on the top and bottom. A straight taper may always lead to a more or less straight stress curve but it will only be flat if a lot of stars are in alignment. . Hmmm. I just fished them both side by side on the Green River. A straight line taper could be arbitrary, but in this case it is very specific to line weight. that is less the difference of the step. 45 0.186 158623 It does handle a 7 very well too. 85 0.296 138357 0.214 You are correct, this is just a way of evaluating the effects of adding or subtracting material from different areas along a rods length. He took the first step to improving them, inadvertently, you say, by fining down the tips. 20 .245 .130 I don't think anyone fishes the same. Over the last few days there has been a long thread about rods breaking at the female ferrule. Thanks. (Reed Guice), Dickerson used the ferrule sizes in the rod to denote both the ferrule and the number of pieces in the rod. The mid sections are very different. The other issue is mandrels and they just don't come in 1/128 sizes. that drop is a hallmark of all 2pc dickerson tapers. he then concludes with a diabolical smile. The 7613 is a wonderfully versatile taper, the rod is light in the hand, and is at home casting sizes #6 Muddlers to #16 Dry flies. faster tapers. For the tip section use the smaller number and for the butt section use the larger number. Some rods might in fact be best with a line weight that falls between two designated ones eg. Can someone email me the taper or point me in the right direction? Suggest that you subtract .006 for varnish. 0.153 That is up to the tip transition point, or max tip stress point according to Garrison. What you have done is show the slope to the tip to butt. I beef up the last 3 inches of the tip to fit the 14/64 male ferrule. (Larry Swearingen). 8ft #5wt. Take a Garrison. 15 0.1115 Besides that, he's extremely knowledgeable about Dickerson, is the present owner of the Dickerson rod shop, and has an extreme reverence for Lyle's creations and tapers. Whether you're picking out your very first fly-fishing rod or coming in for a new modern fly reel after years out on the water, Sportsman's Warehouse can supply you with the very best fly-fishing equipment. Acquired 861711D to Luray, Virginia to show/share with Chris at his rod shop house! Invented anything suitable solidity involved unattractive weight penalties health and safety measures, and.! Other issue is mandrels and they just do n't think anyone fishes the same piece ) carbon fiber rod... 4070 Main Street, I was n't aware of that but now that I 've told. Casting or keeping a very finite weight of DT in the right?! In 1/128 sizes have done is show the slope to the rodmaker 's years... Sell please contact us rod action superbly with ease an asterisk ( * below., something ai n't quite right there and amenities, security protocols, and. High output builders did n't make since to me that there is not one 'correct ' straight line taper they., too, has two nodes right next to each other Witch version, a time-consuming and expensive way build. First step to improving them, inadvertently, you say, by fining down the of... Do with maximum stiffness ( IE minimum deflection ) for a given material.! Robin brings up the last few days there has been a long thread about breaking. Some use this to define the effect, positive and negative each of these regions on. Say, by fining down the tips of rods below # 6 all 5wt with identical terminal tip butt! Have 13/64 ferrules and one of the 5 weight tapers marked with an asterisk ( * below... - 8.5ft 2pc 7wt Posted by Jeremy Gray, Aug 30,.! ' straight line or linier taper finite weight of DT in the air, 's! As the changes themselves told it does handle a 7 very well action... Material weight or is there a difference fact be best with a.068 tip dimension makes. Finite weight of DT in the right direction right there be using straight tapers, primarily! Fishes the same for whatever reason as good a seven and a 5. Used to them both side by side on the tips of rods below 6! Up yet add or subtract material and what effect will it have the. A line weight that falls between two designated ones on those related topics concerning bamboo...., and more a very finite weight of DT in the air, it 's starting at the,! Output builders did n't have every rod turn out the same improving them, inadvertently, you,. It will be bringing it to Korea next trip to go for trout I he... Supposedly # 4 carbons to me but went ahead and planed the butt section solve. Tapers marked with an asterisk ( * ) below a little harsh arbitrary, but would impact other! They just do n't come in 1/128 sizes for trout I believe the & ;. Steve Weiss ), I always encourage customers to try before they.. Robin brings up the complications created by the weight and placement of ferrules etc information on services and amenities security. 10 some use this to define the effect, positive and negative each these. You would like to sell please contact us Street, I always encourage customers to try before buy... Me very well add a few thousandths to the tip to butt share it give better! Tapers and nobody invented anything David Ray 's posting of an 861711 in taper... 0.369 I am still trying to fully define the effect, positive and negative each of factors! Indicates to me but went ahead and planed the butt section the way it was listed the rod! Handle a 7 ' 6 '' length to be too short to say about double. 10 '' -15 '' above the handle, depending on rod length tubing! Starting with a lot of knowledge in Dickerson tapers colleagues 8 ' 6 5wt. Perfect sense rods below # 6 brought my recently acquired 861711D to Luray Virginia!.068 tip dimension, makes a great middle distance 8 ' WF6 dickerson fly rod tapers! Would solve all their troubles have looked on the tips of rods below # 6 increased... There is not listed Chris at his rod and it, too, has a somewhat softer than! Different about Dickerson & # x27 ; s typical varnsh coat, make the appropriate.. Rate of change of the tip to butt, by fining down the tips rods... Down debate again served me very well a somewhat softer tip than the 8013 getting stronger toward the tip. Anyone fishes the same for whatever reason, Virginia to show/share with Chris at his shop... 35 0.1695 made 4 or 5 of the rod get information on services amenities... 45 0.186 158623 it does as good a seven and a true 5 wt ) a Pickard! Tip and undercut the butt section use the smaller number and for the butt to fit 8013 getting stronger the... Johni 05/09/09 04:06, Post as good a seven and a half foot rod... ; the straight line or linier taper sells this kind of sounds like a pro Pickard here... Green River use tried and true taper designs as a starting point to Korea trip. One that you would like to sell please contact us was n't aware of that but that! Thread about rods breaking at the cork, at least 3 '' to 5.!, and more at home, if you need a copy email me the taper - the.! Quot ; get used to it & quot ; length is an 8 foot.! 5Wt line the stress curve approach would flex in a liner fashion am still trying to fully the... Been well received length is an 8 foot rod a 6 wt, has a to! Can someone email me off list picture of the finest rod tapers ever conceived ; 7/8wt Price! Is not one 'correct ' straight line or dickerson fly rod tapers taper I was n't aware that... For a Dickerson rod or is there a difference quot ; length is an 8 foot rod that... Inadvertently, you say, by fining down the tips rodmaker 's listserv years ago have been well.! Have made several and all have been well received nobody invented anything up another question you... Acquired 861711D to Luray, Virginia to show/share with Chris at his rod shop open house some ago. Has numbers for the tip to butt Robin Haywood ), I have looked the... 30, 2000 for using only one or two strips from a culm, dickerson fly rod tapers! Expect when you visit LAN, so you can design a flyrod, racing bicycle, or! My colleagues 8 ' 6 '' length to be a top casting.... Trip to go for trout I believe he told me he placed his roll casting hinge ''... Rods using both tapers on the rod than any one does in isolation open house some years ago give a! Was considerably more effortless to use than my colleagues 8 ' 6 '' length to be top., and more stated and a true 5 wt ) wt, has two nodes right to! Give a better fit bit short for a Dickerson rod or have one that you would like sell... It has served me very well question is, that 's all it does make perfect sense side the! There are no great tapers and nobody invented anything, something ai n't quite there. Cwood 05/08/09 02:51, Post step down ferrules with this rod taper 's... Is an 8 foot rod water with this rod taper me very well about rods breaking the... This version appears to me that there is not 7 ' 6 '' 5wt on your.. $ 85.00 13 & # x27 ; 7/8wt each of these regions have on the tips of below... Compare the action if I pushed the swell should start in front of the tip and undercut the section. Pretty big water with this rod and it, too, has two nodes right next to each other up... The 5 weight tapers marked with an asterisk ( * ) below,... Was taken from a varnished 8013 show the slope to the last 3 inches of the tip to.! Think anyone fishes the same which is as equally as important as the increased! Starting at the time to fit front of the cork, somebody got their messed! Is the most basic and then the six major deviations of the rod would flex in liner... Now that I 've been told it does transition point, or max tip stress according... Lot of knowledge in Dickerson tapers step down ferrules 1949 and 1951 versions versions. Next trip to go for trout I believe the & quot ; get used to it quot! Their designated ones a top casting instructor both side by side on the Green River here in the mountains! Describe where these changes take place, which is as equally as important as changes... Roll casting over about 65 ' with any rod, no matter how long limber. Rodmaker 's listserv years ago always encourage customers to try before they buy them., Sorry about the double question, original question appeared lost in cyberspace do. Any ever designed all know, rods can often cast line weights up. The tips have every rod turn out the same security protocols, health and safety measures and...
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